[#10263] Clinical toolbox and lesion mapping questions

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2023-06-26 14:28
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razar1122 (razar1122)
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Clinical toolbox and lesion mapping questions

Detailed description

In my research as a PhD student, I am using CT images from stroke patients. I plan to use the toolbox as the initial step to normalize the images and get lesion coordinates. I have hit some road blocks while researching the toolbox, and would greatly appreciate your guidance.


 


As far as I understand from articles on the toolbox, images are normalized to CT template, but are MNI-matched; the clinical toolbox was developed to matched the MNI coordinates, but just off CT images, correct?


 


Further, I would like to convert lesion mask coordinates to Julich histological atlas. While probing the literature, I found several studies that have used the SPM toolbox to normalize the brains and then combined them with SPM and FSL Atlases, however, I found a post on neurostar where you recommended that we do not mix the clinical toolbox with FSL atlases. I wanted to confirm with you if I can use an SPM atlas with clinical toolbox and if the conversion is from MNI to “said atlas” on Matlab.


Response

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Date: 2023-06-30 11:02
Sender: Chris Rorden

Please see Figure 1 of Horn et al.


  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article...


SPM aligns brains to have an average size, while the MNI template is larger than average.


You can use atlases from SPM that have an average size, but need to make adjustments with atlases that have the size of the MNI template. The difference between SPM and MNI is relatively small, so some ignore it, but you will get a better match by using an atlas of the correct size.


 



Date: 2023-06-30 04:29
Sender: razar1122

Hi,


 


Thank you for your reply! I really appreciate it.


I think I am still confused. Is the CT template in the clinical toolbox oriented in MNI Space? After normalizing the brain to the CT template, can I label the scans using atlases supported in SPM (these are not atlases based off CT Scans)? For example, the process would be: 1) normalize using CT normalize in clinical toolbox and 2) apply an automatic labeling atlas.


I have probed the literature, and I have not been able to get a clear answer.



Date: 2023-06-26 14:52
Sender: Chris Rorden

The clinical toolbox is based on SPM. SPM expects modality specific templates (e.g CT, PET, MR T1, MR T2, etc) that match tissue contrast. The clinical toolbox provides a CT-specific template that matches the size, shape and alignment of other SPM templates. These templates provide a good average shape and size of a European adult brain. 


There are several caveats:


 1. While SPM uses average sized brain templates, other tools like ANTS and FSL use MNI templates that have roughly the same size and orientation but are larger than typical. This difference is illustrated by Figure 1 or Horn et al. This also explains why MRIcroGL comes with both the "spm152" and "mni152" brains - note that these two images are slightly different in size to each other. 


  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article...


In general, the normalization provided by the clinical toolbox will be similar to other SPM tools, but will not exhibit the size dilation of FSL and ANTs. Therefore, you need to be careful that you are consistent on the tools you use within an analysis.


 


2. Our CT template was intentionally acquired in individuals who had similar age to older adults who have strokes in our region. Therefore, the ventricles are a bit more dilated than the SPM templates that are based on young adults and you can observe some sulcal atrophy. Further, our template is representative of the diverse population of South Carolina and does reflect the diet and genetics of our region. Features like post-bregmatic depression and wide diploic space were common in our dataset. While we aligned all of our population to match the shape of the SPM templates, it does make our template different than others. I actually think it is a good idea to capture diversity in our templates, but I must recognize that our template was by design less homogeneous than others. If your sample is large enough, you can use our templates as a starting point, and use DARTEL to create a template that better reflects your population.


 


In general, the choice of template matters. Our template provides a robust normalization for stroke and is appropriate for a study where you use a SPM for all processing. Mixing modalities (e.g. CT and T2-FLAIR), time post injury, multiple sites iwth different populations, etc.  will not only create differences in template, but also the extent of the injury that you see. In general, the prime consequence of these sources of variability will be to lower statistical power, even if they can aid the clinical generalizability. These concerns and comments also apply to atlases.


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New Message2023-06-30 11:02crlab
New Message2023-06-30 04:29razar1122
New Message2023-06-26 14:52crlab